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wjionieis

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Posts: 4 Member Since: 03/24/13

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Jun 22 13 12:10 PM

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Hi guys this is my first post and I thought we'll why don't I start it out with a question Hydrogen versus Helium what do you prefer what is the best for beginners?

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lta

Assistant Pilot In Command (APIC)

Posts: 132 Member Since:01/18/13

#1 [url]

Jun 22 13 3:10 PM

Well,in my opinion, I prefer hta gases like hot air. But if I had to choose between the two I would choose
helium because its not as flammable as hydrogen. We don't want another Hindenburg Disaster! :) but hydrogen is free to make if you have batteries and a couple of metal rs and water. So its debatable,I started out with helium but it cost as much as gas now!

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wjionieis

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Posts: 4 Member Since:03/24/13

#2 [url]

Jun 22 13 8:00 PM

Haha I think that I am probably going to start with hydrogen just because of the cost :-( although you and both now that hydrogen is not as dangerous as the critics say.  Any advice where to a machine I already have one (that I made) but it's just not efficient enough :-(.

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lta

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Posts: 132 Member Since:01/18/13

#3 [url]

Jun 22 13 9:01 PM

Critics are going to take every thing to the extreme. I wish people would just forget about the Hindenburg Disaster. I know it was sad and depressing, but their have been plane crashes that have killed way more than 36 people. Yet the airplanes and helicopters still are thriving. When the Hindenburg crashed, the airship era died with it. Hydrogen is not a bad thing. Its only dangerous when theirs a spark. Helium would do the same thing when you put it near heat or fire. But that goes as for as any lta gases as for as I know. But screw the critics go with hydrogen :D.

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lta

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Posts: 132 Member Since:01/18/13

#5 [url]

Jun 23 13 6:17 AM

I haven't heard of that until now. It sounds pretty cool, but it could be dangerous to your health do to
the poison. This is what Wikipedia says about ammonia...
Ammonia is sometimes used to fill weather balloons. Due to its high boiling point (compared to helium and hydrogen), ammonia could potentially be refrigerated and liquefied aboard an airship to reduce lift and add ballast (and returned to a gas to add lift and reduce ballast). Ammonia is relatively heavy (0.6 kg/m 3 ), poisonous, and an irritant.

Its sounds like the perfect lifting gas if you know what your doing.

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grim

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Posts: 10 Member Since:03/25/13

#6 [url]

Jul 3 13 1:53 PM

I purpose using vaccum as a lifting gas.

irship (1670)
Vacuum
Theoretically, an aerostatic vehicle could
be made to use a vacuum or partial
vacuum. As early as 1670, over a century
before the first manned hot-air balloon
flight,[2] the Italian monk Francesco Lana
de Terzi postulated a ship with four
vacuum spheres.
In a theoretically perfect situation with
weightless spheres, a 'vacuum balloon'
would be 7% lighter than a hydrogen-
filled balloon, and 16% lighter than a
helium-filled one. However, because the
walls of the balloon must be able to
remain rigid without imploding, the
balloon is impractical to construct with
all known materials. Despite that,
sometimes there is discussion on the
topic.
Courtesy of Wikipedia

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lta

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Posts: 132 Member Since:01/18/13

#7 [url]

Jul 3 13 2:40 PM

Vacuum sounds pretty good to use. I have been researching neon and plasma. They have properties that could lift a little, but not enough for an rc blimp etc. If you were building and ultralight airship then you might want to go with either hydrogen or vacuum. Neon is rarely found on Earth and when it is, it tends to be more expensive than helium. Plasma is a solid which can be changed into plasma gas.

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parseval pask

Airship Crew Chief

Posts: 46 Member Since:07/02/13

#8 [url]

Jul 5 13 11:43 AM

I would go with Hydrogen. It is only dangerous when mixed with air. It must be remembered that the these famous airship disasters of the past were in massive craft that would suffer different effects than a RC blimp/airship. The huge surface area built up static that had nowhere to go, leaking hydrogen also caused electrical current due to process called Osmosis (probably spelt wrong). lightnening was almost certainly a cause of many disasters but as there are four types of lightening (Sky to ground, ground to sky, sky to sky and outer atmosphere/space to sky) it may not have been apparent at the time that an airship was struck by lightening when there were no thunderstorms around (I believe this to be the fate of HMA - NS11 and the African Airship). I do not however think that a RC Airship is likely to be that heavily charged as to attract a bolt of lightening, nor a small blimp.

Something else that was used in the early days was Coal Gas. Now I have no idea what this is allthough the name does suggest how it is made. This was used in the very early days of Balloons-Dirigibles.

Alan.

overland

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lta

Assistant Pilot In Command (APIC)

Posts: 132 Member Since:01/18/13

#9 [url]

Jul 5 13 12:30 PM

Coal gas
In the past, coal gas , a mixture of
hydrogen, carbon monoxide and other
gases, was also used in balloons. It was
widely available and cheap; the down side
was a higher density (reducing lift) and
the high toxicity of the carbon monoxide.
Courtesy of Wikipedia
Yea this could be very very dangerous mixing these kind of gases. Mixing helium with hydrogen is safer than this lol

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Zeppelin Historian

Airship Crew Chief

Posts: 30 Member Since:03/01/14

#10 [url]

Mar 1 14 5:54 AM

A rather simple question

For indoor flights i would use helium for safety reasons. Usually indoor blimps are smaller and therefore, the gas is afforable (or get a sponsor). For outdoor use with larger model airships I am convinced that hydrogen is absolutely suitable. The amount of hydrogen will never be large enough to create a serious hazzard.

All other gases are too heavy and do not allow for enough lift for RC models. And the envelope strong enough to hold a vacuum would be far too heavy. So just forget about it

Besides, "hot air" is not a "hta gas" or a hot air balloon would not get off the ground... And lelium is an inert gas which does NOT burn, no matter what you do with it.

Andreas

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lta

Assistant Pilot In Command (APIC)

Posts: 132 Member Since:01/18/13

#11 [url]

Mar 1 14 8:15 AM

You have made a very good point here about HTA gases. If this was true then you might as well say that filling a blimp up with oxygen will lift the blimp. No it's not, it's going to be like a rock on the ground it ain't going no where!

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parseval pask

Airship Crew Chief

Posts: 46 Member Since:07/02/13

#12 [url]

Mar 21 14 1:57 PM

To change the subject slightly, a winged aircraft filled with LTA gas would be an interesting concept and one I would investigate if I was a designer back in the early part of last century. You would be then using the qualities of both aircraft types.

A curious idea concieved in the 1850's was an engine/propeller - airship hybrid. The cigar shaped envelope had propeller blades at each end (also gas filled and part of the envelope) and the whole thing was rotated by a motor housed in the gondola below. This particular airship was never built and as far as I know no-one has copied it. With todays technologies (solar power, very light and rechargable batteries) this idea would be plausible if the envelope was rotated electrically using Faraday's laws.

I have no doubt someone will reply with something like "have you not heard of the flying wing airship built by ????" or "in the 19??'s there was a very cool looking airship with a revolving envelope" and I hope someone does because I for one would love to see such craft.

Alan.

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